Show Notes:
I know this is all too common of a saying: listen to your gut. 👂
But let me complete that sentence for you—listen to your gut. Give attention to what your instincts tell you, while also looking at real, tangible data 👀
Really, there’s nothing wrong when we listen to our feelings. But there’s also no harm if you don’t jump right away to what your heart tells you but instead align what you feel to what’s logical and concrete.
Our businesses are our babies, so there’s a tendency to be a bit (or should I say a ton?) biased about it. When that bit of bias kicks in, that’s when we should take a step back and look at it through a different lens. 🔍
Maybe then we could make the right, sensible marketing decision.
In this episode of Marketing on Tap, I’m gonna give you a few examples of when feelings are valid but are not solely the right indicator for you to make your choices. 🎧 Tune in to find out the balance between your instincts and data.
Key Takeaways:
💡 Make marketing decisions based on data and not your feelings — while feelings are valid, we sometimes have clouded judgment if we only rely on what we feel
💡 Looking into data allows you to take a step back and assess your business based on
✅ What’s working right now in the landscape?
✅ What do your conversions look like?
✅ What funnels are working for what type of price point products?
✅ What’s your end goal?
💡 No specific strategy that would work for everyone — remember to make marketing decisions and apply strategies that would align with your end goal
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Get the Transcript here:
Emotion Vs Data: How to Make Marketing Decisions
Note: We use AI transcription so there may be some inaccuracies.
Jessica Walman: Hello? Hello, what is up guys? Welcome back to the Marketing On Tap podcast with your host and myself, Jessica, and I’m excited you guys are back. And today I wanted to talk about something and it’s gonna be a little bit, riffing here because I don’t have too many notes. I just have some examples in my head and it’s been happening a few times and I really thought this was gonna be important to talk about today.
And that is making your marketing decisions based on data and not feelings. Now when I say making marketing decisions on data and not feelings, I don’t mean don’t take your feelings into account. if it’s not working, you feel out of integrity or it doesn’t align with, work life balance that you really would love to have or whatever might be that’s different.
Absolutely take those into consideration. But you need to be strategic in decisions that you’re making for your marketing. For your business. And a lot of times we are really close to the business, right? It’s our baby. And so we wanna make these decisions, whether that is to shift an entire program, get rid of a program, increase pricing, use this specific strategy, whatever it might be,based on what we feel, what we think, what we saw somebody else do that was doing it successfully.
Again, whatever it might be. and they all could be, right. What you’re thinking might be right. What you’re seeing someone else do might be correct. It could be something that could work for you. switching your program over to a complete done for you instead of DIY could be a good decision.
I don’t know, You have to make that decision, but you do need to take into account. What is working right now in, the landscape, right? What is the data saying? What do conversions look like? Um, what funnels are working for what type of price point products? You might say, well, I don’t care if, I haven’t seen someone else do it like this before.
I know it’s gonna work for me. I’m just going to tell you that if it’s not proven already somewhere else, it will be difficult to make it work for you. So again, really looking at what’s already. where is the market trending right now? what is your audience saying that they will buy and, know, actually invest in, and then using that to help guide you and your decisions.
So not just saying, And not just feeling. And so I’m gonna go into a couple examples so that you know what I’m talking about. And you’re probably going to resonate with some of this. And so, we’re gonna dive in. So well, I had two clients, one client. An amazing client. Absolutely love working with her and her team.
They are just phenomenal. And their product is just amazing. And it’s, a kinda like a done with you coaching program and it sells for about $5,000 and it’s an amazing program. It really, really is. it helps people, with speaking on stages and getting talks and events like that, and, She’s been doing this for a while.
She’s had this program, I think she’s had it for a few years now. And, the price point has never really increased. Okay. And so I jumped on a marketing call with them and I guess I, I had shown up a little bit, late because I was on another client call they were already talking about something that immediately when I got on the call, my eyes widened and I think they could all see it cuz I heard, Why don’t we, it was two things.
One was, we have an increase this price, this the value. They talk so much about the value of the offer. it should be priced so much higher. So let’s go ahead and double the price. So that was the first piece. The first piece was doubling the price. The second piece was we actually do a paid masterclass to then pitch them into this $5,000 offer.
People pay, I think it’s $47 to join this paid two day live masterclass. It’s either two or three days. And during that masterclass they’re pitching for people to apply to this $5,000 offer. And, you this two day masterclass, they give a lot. It’s a really good content.
And I understand, that it’s great content. And I heard them saying, This is valuable. Like what we do here in this two days is people should be paying so much money for this cuz most two day masterclass like this or little live events just kind of have fluff and this is really solid educational information that they can take and actually implement in their lives right now.
And so they wanted to take it from a $47 offer to a four $97. Okay. So again, this was happening like I think within the first few minutes of me hopping on this call. And I listened, I heard, I listened to what everyone said and everything was validated. that masterclass is valuable,
It is. So is it worth 4 97? Hell yeah, it is. you bet your butt. It is. is your main offer at 5,000 probably due to be increased and go to 10,000? if the value’s there and it is, then yeah, that is never the question. That’s not what’s in question here. What’s in question is what marketing decisions do you make?
To get you to where you wanna go. So let’s go with the increase in the paid masterclass. I specifically asked, is the goal to make money with this masterclass and have this be know, a differentrevenue source? Or is the goal really to just get people into your main offer? The goal is to get people into this paid masterclass so that you can then move them to your main offer, and that is your goal.
You want to. The number of people in your main offering increased revenue there, and they said, oh, well, our goal is to increase the members and the buyers into our main $5,000 offer. The masterclass is just the means to get there. Then I said, great, then you should not increase the price point of that masterclass.
And I say this because we already did a launch and it was one of their best launch to date at that $47 price point. So we know we all get the shiny, syndrome, where we wanna shift things. I said, no, everything worked so well. And so since everything worked, really, really well in that launch.
What do we do now? Do we start changing everything? No, two things. You scale your ad. so you can bring in more buyers and more revenue, and you just make what we call enhancements to your marketing. So you’re not changing your offers, you’re not changing price points, you’re not changing the strategy.
You can enhance the way you are getting people to show up on the paid masterclass, right? The more people you get to. The more people you are able to pitch your offer to, and you can get more buyers into the main offer. So you can enhance some of your sales page, maybe new imagery, new bonuses, new testimonials, enhance your emails.
At this point, we’re in an enhancing stage and a scaling stage with your ad spend, not a let’s shift it all and change. And so I know from data and from running ads and all of our clients that if you try to sell right now, we sell a $47 masterclass to their warm audience, but also to cold. And so, That’s great.
That works. we get it within a certain cpa. We know what that is. We have a goal KPI in mind for that. and that’s our goal. We need to get so many buyers into this masterclass because we know a certain percentage, in their case, I think it was 10%, will then convert over to their main offer.
Fantastic. But if you change it to a $497 masterclass, you can no longer pitch. To a cold audience. It just won’t convert. It just won’t. No matter how much you want it to, no matter how valuable you know this, masterclass is, it’s not going to convert to a cold audience with just a sales page. If you were going to sell that and you wanted a 4 97, Two day masterclass.
you wanted to sell that. You would then need another quote, what we call a sales vehicle, another webinar or challenge that you would need to create, get people into for free, and then pitch your 4 97 masterclass afterwards to that. That’s the only way that’s going to sell. So again, I understand what they’re thinking.
It’s so valuable. We can get more revenue this way and higher show up rate on the masterclass if it’s at a $497 price point versus a 47. I understand the logic and the thinking there, but when you really look at what’s working, where the market is, what the strategy will actually allow you to do.
Increasing it to that is not going to benefit you. It is not going to help you reach your end. Which is more people. More buyers into your main offer. Okay. and then when it came to the main offer, increasing and doubling the price point, could they increase it? Yes, but again, it sold so well last time that doing this, all of a sudden our numbers could start taking, especially if you’re going to double ad spend, which is what they’re going to do, they’re going to double their ad spend, but then you just doubled the price point of the offer and so, That could massively shift everything, and we don’t know what that looks like yet.
know, if you wanna increase it by a thousand or 2000, know, if you went from five to 6,000, no one’s probably going to bat an eye. I mean, really. But, know, someone else in the team had a great idea, which was, hey, make this the last round at this price point. Have some FOMO happening, and let people know, hey, this is the last time you’re gonna get at this price point.
it’s going up to 10,000 and it’s worth that with X, Y, z, blah, blah. And they’re also gonna make some adjustments on their backend just to ensure it really is a $10,000 program. Right? It’s really worth that. which I think it is. but then now it’s a cool. Strategy for the next launch, which will only enhance it, right?
Because we’re using the same strategy, same price points, but now we’ve got some enhancements to make everything a little bit better along the way, along with some FOMO for price point increasing on the next round. So you better get in at the, grandfathered price now, So hopefully you guys are seeing that.
you really have to look at what your end goal is and then what’s working now and, what the market will allow.
so I have a student who actually, has A product that they sell and it’s, $3,000. And they started talking to me about, well, I’ve also created a new self-liquidating offer, what we call a slow funnel. And then I’m creating, a mid-tier offer as well. And then I’ve got my main offer. and they haven’t really sold anybody into their main offer yet.
So really they’re talking about three different offers, which are multiple funnels and different processes that go with that. So it sounded great and, know, they had spoken with people about this and, like other, I guess coaches quote unquote and had a copywriter already making copy.
And I just wanted them to take a step back and say, listen, you may have already figured this out, but I’m just coming in brand new and I wanna make sure I understand why you’re doing this. And the, purpose behind. And so really, what is your main goal? What is your main goal?
And their main goal was to get people into their higher ticket, offer, their $3,000 offer. I said, great. Couldn’t you just create and make this a lot easier and, try to create a masterclass or a challenge or something to then pitch them into this offer? wouldn’t that be easier than having to create two new offers that you then need to market and get to sell in order to get this other offer to sell that your main one, And so I really was just kind of having them really think about what the point and purpose of each of these.
And for this student, with, they’re going after parents, for their teens. And so it definitely is, parents, buying a product for their, in regards to like their teenagers and parenting. They need a little bit more nurturing. They need more time.
They don’t buy a $3,000 offer for sure, off the cuff. So, after really diving into it with, this student, it was like, okay, this $3,000 offer may not convert as well on just using a masterclass. because of who we’re going after and because of how long they really need to make a decision.
Could you make some sales? You could, would it be overly profitable? It may not be just based on what the niche is, and who the, avatar is. So the self grain offer was this really low ticket price way to get people into her world. Parents who are like, I can shell out $24 for this product.
Not a big deal. When the promise is so amazing cuz the product itself is amazing and then get them into her world so she can then nurture them because she knows it will take time to convert them. It will take time through email, through social media content. it will take time to convert them.
And so this way she at least gets ’em into the world through a paid product. They get to experience her paid product, she can then start emailing them, nurturing them, and then she can at that point have two options because we all know, not all parents are gonna be able to invest $3,000 and that’s fine too, right?
You’re not supposed to appeal to everybody. You’re not always supposed to have an offer for. Price point for everybody. but $3,000 for this is kind of high and but she knows it’s, she’s a therapist. She knows people will pay it. but she wanted to have this middle ground as well where people could come into for a mid-tier, not me personally, mid-tier.
I might remove that because again, you’re, trying to service everybody at every level, and you have to provide value and your free value should be able to provide value to everyone. Then your paid offer is where you’re really being able to shine and to provide the most support you can.
And so if you’re doing that with your $3,000 offer, then you do that with your $3,000 offer. That doesn’t mean you go and create, four more offers to try to at every level to try to accommodate everybody, because then guess what? None of them are going to convert. If you are focusing on multiple offers, it’s really hard to get them to convert.
After talking to her, then I was like, okay, I can see a little bit as to why now you want the self-liquidating offer. it makes some sense. And she did talk to me a bit about the Midt tier and I started making some sense and, could she do without it? She could, if she really wanted to focus her full attention on that $3,000 offer, then she really should just get rid of the midtier.
from the conversation, it seemed like she, really wanted support people there and she really felt like they needed more time and more support before they might go up to that $3,000 offer. So, Totally fine, but you guys can see where you really need to just pay attention to. What is your end goal?
What are you trying to get to? One more example, really good example is a client, good friend of mine, she does live events and does million dollar plus months and she’s just an amazing person. One of my really good friends and she was doing a challenge and On the challenge, people would sign up for this free challenge.
And then, the goal was to get them to show up live and, then pitch, them, to the live event. And she has a live event and then she sells them into, at the live event to like a 15, $20,000 offer this challenge. She was getting challenge registrants. We were getting her challenge registrants over and over and over again, and she was like, man, you know, I really want to, Maybe some sales from this challenge.
initially, like kind of self liquidate, the challenge. Can I, on the thank you page, put a little product there for people to buy. I would love to do that. So after talking this through with her, I just said, listen again, what is your ultimate goal? Is your ultimate goal to self liquidate this funnel?
Or is your ultimate goal to get people to show up to this, challenge? Because that’s really important. Otherwise, you can’t make your sales if they don’t show up. She said, oh, ultimately it’s to get sales to the event so I can make pitches and, sell to my main offer.
And I said, great. The way the funnel is set up now is people go and they, join the challenge. And, we had it two different ways. Um, one way we had it was it would, redirect them to the Facebook group afterwards. It would go to a confirmation. In five seconds, it would redirect to the Facebook group, which is where they need to go to really get ready for this challenge.
And that’s where she gets people pumped up. That’s like where kinda the challenge takes place. So the way the funnel was set up was getting people into that Facebook group, which was so important because the the more people that joined, the more people that showed up for the challenge or showed up when, she went live with her q and as or her, daily prompts.
And so I said, look, if you do this, You’re going to lose more people, less people are going to join that group. Less people are going to show up because you’re now saying, Hey, my goal isn’t for you to go to this challenge. It’s like challenge. But hey, buy this thing. And now the only way you’re relying on, for you to get them into this group is by email.
And we know that by emailing them and saying, Hey, you join the challenge, join the group. We all know open rates on emails are only so hi. Right? So the way the follow was set up was. Instantly get them over to that, Facebook group. So a hundred percent or close to would have that opportunity to join the Facebook group right in front of their face.
that was huge for her end goal. So again, things might sound cool, things might sound like they make sense in your mind, and they do. There’s nothing wrong with self-liquidating the challenge, but it has to make sense for your end line, for your bottom line and for what your end goal is. And if it doesn’t, then don’t do it.
Right. And so guys, that’s really what I wanted to convey in this because again, there’s so many shiny things out there. There’s so many strategies, there’s so many ways to do things, and that’s why I don’t teach and I don’t talk to my clients and students about this is the one way. Because there isn’t, there is not a one way.
it’s whatever the way works for you and your business and your end goal, that is what’s gonna work for you. And so I really wanna just highlight that for you guys. And if you guys ever have any questions, Hey Jess, this is my end goal, this is my strategy. Is this working? Do you have any thoughts or input?
Just feel free to DM me on Instagram, Jessica underscore woman, and reach out. I will personally just message you back, give you some insights because this is really important before you start putting all your time energy into building out the funnel and potentially wasting money on ad spend.
Guys, hopefully this was helpful and I will see you guys in the next episode. Bye.